197: Gender Equity in Executive Leadership - Data from ON Partners' 2025 Women's Report ft. Tara Flickinger

Description

In this special episode, Lex is joined by Tara Flickinger, partner at ON Partners, to discuss the critical topic of gender equity in the executive suite — drawing insights from ON Partners' 2025 Women's Report.

Throughout the conversation, they explore the persistent compensation gap between men and women, the importance of salary negotiation, and the need for structured hiring practices to ensure equity across all levels. The conversation also highlights the impact of workplace flexibility, common traits of successful women in leadership, and the societal biases that affect work-life balance.

Ultimately, Tara emphasizes the importance of women advocating for themselves to accelerate progress towards economic parity — but paints a hopeful picture for what's ahead.

Transcript

Lex (00:01.112)
Hey everyone, it is Lex Winship and welcome to Becoming a Hiring Machine. This is the show dedicated to fixing recruitment by going beyond saying what needs to change and instead teaches you how to make the change. Today we have an amazing episode ahead of us, but before we get into that, I wanna tell you a little bit about the show. Essentially we have shows within the show. Sometimes we have interviews with industry thought leaders, hint, hint, that's what we're doing today.

Other times we cover trending topics and every Tuesday we drop a Tactical Tuesday episode where we go deep on how to do something that will help drive better results in your day to day. Occasionally you'll also hear a mic drop episode from Lockso's founder, Matt, where he shares something that he's been thinking about within the recruitment space and wants you to know. Today we are diving into a crucial topic, gender equity in the executive suite.

So we have the perfect guest today to guide us through the latest insights in this topic. Joining us is Tara Flickinger, a partner at On Partners, a leading executive search firm dedicated to building diverse C-level and board leadership teams. Tara is here with us today to discuss On Partners recently released 2025 Women's Report, which analyzed over a thousand senior level executive searches to identify compensation trends and shifts in executive representation for women.

So we are thrilled to have Tara here today to share some of the report's most compelling findings. So get ready for a very insightful discussion on the current landscape, the future outlook for women in executive leadership. I'm just so excited if you couldn't tell by the way that I've been just grinning like a fool throughout this entire intro. So Tara, take it away. Tell us a little bit more about yourself.

Tara Flickinger (03:46.418)
Sure, so at On Partners, as you said, I've been here for just over six years. I've been in executive search for over 10 and was in a variety of different roles in industries prior to getting into search. And I'm fortunate because I absolutely love what I do. My most important job, however, is that I am a mom of three. I have two daughters and a son and they keep me

on my toes. Yeah, so wearing multiple hats. Yes.

Lex (04:17.656)
I love it. And also being the mom to two daughters, you definitely, this, I feel like this report and the findings probably hit close to home for you. know, raising two future women who I'm sure you have big hopes and dreams for, this is all super relevant.

Tara Flickinger (04:32.486)
Yeah, for sure. And there are things that I wish I knew when I was younger that I try to instill in my girls so that they don't make the same mistakes that I do and go into the world with more confidence and conviction and clarity than I did. But easier said than done, right?

Lex (04:51.63)
Definitely, Okay, well with all of that in mind, let's dive in. I've got a couple of questions for you that are specific to the report and its findings. And for our listeners, I'm gonna drop that report in the show notes so that you guys can actually look at the data. If it's helpful for you, if you're not driving, you can look at it while you listen to this podcast. If you are driving, please, please, please, for the sake of the safety of everyone on the road, save looking at the report for later. So one thing that...

is made very clear in the report is that women often come in lower than men on total compensation, not necessarily just due to a base salary discrepancy, but due to lower bonuses and sign on bonuses, et cetera. What do you think is the driving force here? Like, why is this the case? And what also are some overlooked non-salary components that women should prioritize? And then how can they effectively advocate for them? Which I think is, you know, often the tricky part.

Tara Flickinger (05:45.35)
Yeah.

So it's a good question, and I think there are probably a number of factors at play here. But I would say historically, I think that women have been quick to trade flexibility for compensation, because without flexibility, they couldn't have the job period, potentially. And they'd rather the job at a lower salary than no job at all.

And I think that's changed because I think both men and women are looking for flexibility today. So women really should not be making concessions on compensation for flexibility. So that's one thing. Another is I think women don't ask as much as they should. I think it's not in everyone's nature to ask or at least

sweeping generalizations is that men tend to ask more. And so, you know, when our clients go to offer, unless negotiations took place ahead of time, or it is clearly stated as such, companies do not make their first offer their best offer, because they always expect there to be an ask or some negotiations on the candidates side. And they'll never

offer a sign-on bonus or a guaranteed portion of a bonus unless there is an ask for candidates. So I think, or an ask from candidates, so I think women don't ask for these things as much as men and that is reflected in the bonuses and the compensation beyond just a base salary.

Lex (07:36.248)
I think that makes so much sense just given, again, broad sweeping generalizations, but I do feel like women are socialized to not feel like a burden, to not feel like they're asking for too much, to make yourself as small and as unproblematic as possible. And so I'm curious, I feel like how do you fight back against that mentality of like, if I ask for more, I'm going to look bad, I'm going to start off on this foot of being demanding and being difficult and not a, know, just.

Tara Flickinger (07:43.488)
and

Tara Flickinger (08:00.956)
Mm-hmm.

Lex (08:05.568)
accepting and just kind of takes what they get type of person. How do we kind of combat that mentality?

Tara Flickinger (08:11.302)
Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's a real concern and fear for women because they want to get the job ultimately. And I think some people think that the offer would be rescinded if they ask for too much. And that's not the case. think negotiations are viewed as a good thing. And sometimes not negotiating can be viewed as a negative.

Lex (08:20.332)
Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (08:40.388)
especially for roles like sales or go to market, they expect you to ask. And ultimately, it's likely that you as a candidate will be negotiating on behalf of the company. And so you want to show that you're a good negotiator. Because if you're not going to negotiate for yourself, then what's to say you're going to negotiate for the company? And so

In those conversations, you can say something to lessen the awkwardness of, hey, hiring manager, hopefully this will be the last time that we're on opposite sides of the table, moving forward, I'll be negotiating on behalf of the company and alongside you. And that kind of makes the conversation a little bit more palatable and takes the awkwardness out of it.

And, you know, employers want employees who know their worth and who are going to stand up for them because that's ultimately how they want them to operate as an employee of the firm. So.

Lex (09:49.454)
That's a really, really interesting perspective. I've never heard it put that way, but you're actually demonstrating a skill set by negotiating and by asking for more. And I love that framing of like making it a little bit tongue in cheek, but still putting it out there and proving that this is an area where I can bring value to the table. And also I'm going to demonstrate the fact that I believe in myself. So I love, love, love that framing.

Tara Flickinger (09:57.957)
Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (10:14.13)
Good.

Lex (10:15.032)
So then what are some other things outside of base salary that we could consider when negotiating? it's not necessarily within the bounds of base comp, what else is out there?

Tara Flickinger (10:26.822)
Yeah, for sure. So there's a lot that goes into a compensation package and some other things to consider are bonuses. And you always want those to be performance based because companies love it when a candidate is betting on him or herself. So for sure asking for performance based bonuses, sometimes they'll split it and it'll be partly individual, some company, but anything where

where a candidate is betting on themselves and the impact they're gonna make on the company, great signal to hiring managers and absolutely can have a significant impact on one's compensation package. Long-term incentives or equity, there are lots of different forms of those, but that shows that a candidate is in it for the long haul. So another way to think about compensation package

Also, you there are times when a candidate might be walking away for a bonus that's already been earned or commissions that have already been earned or joining a firm at an off cycle time. And so we always tell candidates to ask if there's anything the employer can do to, you know, alleviate or lessen the loss, not necessarily make them whole, but to to to lessen the

the comp that they would be walking away from. There are also things like stipends for leadership coaching or continuing education classes applicable to some roles, maybe not some others, but to ask for support and getting a leadership coach because you want to be a great manager of people and you want to continue to improve upon yourself. Again, another great signal to a hiring manager. And then I think participation in

conferences or events that would be impactful and meaningful for a particular role. I think it's really important to talk about the working arrangements. Is it 100 % remote? Is it 100 % in office? Is it hybrid? What does that look like? There are some people who are commuting these days. Are they paying for the transportation costs with commuting?

Tara Flickinger (12:52.656)
hotels or is the company, it's really important to get those things clarified upfront. And then of course, talking about benefits, health benefits, 401k, different retirement matches, vacation, all of those things, you know, make up one's total compensation package.

Lex (13:15.638)
I love it. So do you recommend basically that someone identifies what's most important to them? Is this something that is very nuanced and based on the individual themselves, or is there kind of like a, a best fit? Like this is best practices ask for this, or is it so individual? Okay.

Tara Flickinger (13:29.04)
Yeah, no best fit, no best practices, absolutely individual, yes. Because it changes also depending on where you are in your career. Cash might be more important, maybe you're a little bit later on your career and equity, you just never know. Totally nuanced and individual.

Lex (13:39.309)
Yeah.

Lex (13:48.886)
Okay, I love it. So yeah, I mean, think the suggestion then to any listeners would be identify what those things are for you. What are the things that are almost like non-negotiable for you and then kind of build out what's your ideal compensation package right now. And again, that's a thing that can shift and change as your career does. Okay, so next question. The report primarily looks at executive level roles, which is intentional, but considering Pew Research Center data showing a persistent broader pay gap by gender,

Despite progress among younger workers, how can organizations start to ensure that the positive trends that we're seeing at the exact level trickle down and translate into more equitable comp across all levels of the company?

Tara Flickinger (14:32.677)
Yeah, sure. So this is going to vary from company to company depending on the size and sophistication. But a couple of things that I think are good. One is very structured hiring and promotion practices. Though if it's very structured, that will ensure equitable compensation across all levels of an organization. And then standardized compensation structures.

and then transparency with pay. And so that is sharing pay bands for certain levels and being very clear about what needs to be achieved to move into a different pay level. All of that will keep things very equitable. Sometimes,

you get into the habit of asking for salary history or where a candidate is currently and that anchors them and then they get paid what they were being paid, not necessarily what the job is worth in their mind or in their band at the company. And that leads to this discrepancy or pay inequitability. And so not asking which,

in a lot of states, they're not allowed to ask for that reason exactly. So structured processes, standardized compensation parameters or structures, and then pay transparency.

Lex (16:15.586)
When it comes to those kind of set compensation structures, the standardization, how do performance-based bonuses kind of fit into that? Is that something that you would also recommend that there's structure around like KPIs and deliverables and having that be kind of factored into that? I'm just curious, like how that kind of fits into that standardization.

Tara Flickinger (16:34.706)
Absolutely, absolutely. think performance based pay is critical because ultimately we're humans, right? Human nature is we are going to work towards what's incentivized. And if we have clear KPIs, goals, metrics, quotas, whatever it is, and we are going to be compensated for those,

Ultimately, you're going to get the best performance out of your employees. And you should be getting compensated based on your performance, your impact on the company. so performance-based metrics should absolutely be a part of that.

Lex (17:22.124)
I love it. Okay. So getting into something outside of comp, you mentioned in the report that workplace flexibility has increased post COVID and that's potentially a factor in women's career progression and some of the evening out that we're seeing in comp and all of that. So how can companies sustain and build upon this flexibility to ensure that it continues to close the gap in the longterm?

Tara Flickinger (17:46.512)
Yeah, so I think this sort of builds upon that performance-based culture because, you know, I think back, and this differs depending on where you are in your career, but I think there's this overarching thought that if you were in the office, in your seat, you were working, and if you were not, you were not working. And that's an easy way to judge one's inferred,

Lex (17:49.985)
Exactly.

Tara Flickinger (18:14.256)
performance is whether or not they're in the seat. What happened with COVID is that no one was in the seat. so women proved that with more flexibility and not necessarily having to be in the seat from X time in the morning to X time at night, they were able to still get their jobs done, sometimes even better. And they sort of proved that you didn't have to be in the office to

to do a really good job in your role and to make impact on the company. And so I think companies really need to evaluate candidates on, or excuse me, employees on their performance and not necessarily their time in the seat or hours in the office. mean, and especially if you think of some sales roles, if you're in the office, that's probably not a good thing because you're not spending time with clients and customers and out on the road.

Now, here's where I'll caveat this. we're sort of putting the C-suite and executives aside, I strongly believe that early in one's career and in the beginning portion of one's career that the best training and development happens in person in the office. Those interactions are invaluable and cannot be replicated.

And I also believe that new employees, younger folks need to prove themselves and earn that trust and then ask for flexibility. Because in essence, if you're asking for flexibility, you're asking for your manager to trust you that you're taking care of business somewhere else, not in your seat in the office during these hours.

And that trust is the only way that it works and trust takes time to be earned.

Lex (20:18.122)
I love that distinction and I think it's so important. This is something where I look back at my career personally and I'm remote now, but I don't think that I could feel as confident and as comfortable working remote if I didn't have that structure of working in an office and paying my dues in a sense early on. And even just learning, okay, what does this look like? It's social interactions. It's also just being in a meeting in person and just feeling that energy that kind of helps you.

Tara Flickinger (20:33.97)
Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (20:39.986)
Mm-hmm.

Lex (20:46.996)
develop that sense of awareness, situational awareness, and then also just, yeah, like a confidence in yourself. And so I, I, I totally hear it from that perspective. And then also obviously the building trust perspective later in your career that probably you've got demonstrated, you know, success and proven data that helps you kind of earn trust right from the get go. But I think, yeah, earlier in your career, putting in, putting in the hours and paying your dues.

Tara Flickinger (20:59.217)
Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (21:10.374)
You you gotta, yeah, you gotta, you gotta put in the time and.

Lex (21:15.98)
Yep, no shortcuts. Okay, I love it. So speaking of just kind of in general, climbing the ladder, so to speak, are there any traits or common characteristics across women that you've noticed throughout your career that are kind of maybe contributing factors to them being able to make these big moves?

Tara Flickinger (21:17.35)
Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (21:36.262)
Yeah, for sure. I the women who I see who are most successful are, they're confident. They have strong conviction in who they are and what they bring to the table. They're competitive. They wanna win. They wanna make impact and maybe beat others.

They have a high level of IQ, but I think more importantly, they have a really high level of EQ. They understand how to work with and through people, how to influence, how to manage up. I think these women also have a tendency to ask for forgiveness and not for permission, meaning they move forward.

I think also this idea of women in all different parts of one's career is just being very proactive. So they anticipate needs, either needs of their managers or their team, but also of their clients or customers, their solutions oriented, they communicate very clearly, they manage up. think that's really

an overlooked skill set, but to be able to manage up and down and all around. I think they're crystal clear and expectation setting and they're aligned with their teams, either their managers or direct reports or colleagues. I think it's really important for women to seek mentorship.

and to develop internal champions. So the women who are most successful, they do that well and very naturally in an authentic and genuine way where they connect with maybe another woman, maybe a man, maybe internally, externally to have mentors and champions to support them in their career and vouch for them. And then they ask for feedback. I love it when my consultants ask for feedback. And then I love it even more when they implement that feedback.

Tara Flickinger (23:57.916)
Feedback can sometimes be hard to take, and I know at different points in my career I didn't love hearing feedback, but it is a true gift and it is an awesome way to propel one's career.

Lex (24:10.542)
I also do think that framing it up as this is something I'm asking for rather than something that's coming out of left field or catching me by surprise. If you can create this culture of like, I'm really wanting feedback. I'm checking in and asking for it. It doesn't hit as hard because it's not something that you're caught off guard by or surprised by.

Tara Flickinger (24:15.504)
Yes, yes.

Tara Flickinger (24:22.257)
Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (24:26.578)
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And I think my husband has some funny thing he says with feedback. Take it in, chew it up, digest or ingest and digest what resonates with you. And if there's something that doesn't really, maybe spit that out. But take the feedback and make it work for you.

Lex (24:45.646)
I'll that up.

Lex (24:52.15)
No, I love that there is inherent subjectivity to some of this stuff. So I do think like the more feedback that you're getting from the more varied sources, the more you can kind of start to develop a sense of intuition around, okay, yeah, what do I need to, yes, ingest, so to speak, and what do I incorporate into things moving forward? So.

Tara Flickinger (24:55.323)
Nothing more.

Tara Flickinger (25:03.728)
Yes. Yeah.

You always need to think about who's delivering the feedback. And that's why I think it's so important for women to seek feedback from those who they trust and admire and respect.

Lex (25:21.614)
Yep. I love that. My husband and I call it blind spots. We're always checking in with each other. Like, do I have any new blind spots that I need to be aware of? And I try to think through that in work and like collaborating with people. Like, how am I being a good teammate and how am I kind of dropping the ball and where can I start to be aware of that? So I love that point. I think it's so, so, so important.

Tara Flickinger (25:24.838)
Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (25:36.924)
I love it.

Lex (25:39.638)
And mentorship, another thing that I think is so underrated in this sense, but I really do believe and I've benefited from strong women in my life who I've been able to look at as a model of, okay, I want to learn from you and I want to have you invest in me and it's this mutual, just incredible relationship. So I love that you called that out.

Okay, so in a recent business journal article, you specifically touched on societal biases. So for example, the fact that oftentimes we've had this idea that when men leave work for family matters, they're seen very positively. It's seen as this thing that they're doing really well, whereas women often face different perceptions around the same topic. So how can companies actively work to dismantle these biases and foster a more equitable understanding of work-life balance in general?

Tara Flickinger (26:29.02)
Yeah, so the good news, Lex, is that I really think that there is much more acceptance than there used to be. And that example that I gave is probably dated, if I'm being honest. And again, it varies from company to company and culture to culture. Some companies are more accepting, others are not. And then sometimes the actual profession that you're in

does not allow that flexibility that others do. But I think what's important is for there to be good modeling at the top. Ultimately, if your manager or the leaders at the top of your firm, they have good balance where they're able to be an engaged parent or

you know, an engaged daughter, they're taking care of parents or son or friend or whatever it is. And then that sort of waterfalls throughout the organization. So if it's important to the culture of the firm, it starts at the top with modeling.

Lex (27:43.65)
I think that is such a great point and it's something that I try to be aware of. When you're responding to Slack messages at 2 a.m., it does send this message to your direct reports that they're expected to be on in that same way. I think one thing that I've seen a lot of people do and that I've started to incorporate is scheduling messages. Yeah, maybe I had some appointments during the day and I'm catching up at work at 10 p.m. I don't need to send that message right now. I can schedule it for the morning and my team can see those messages when they log

Tara Flickinger (28:02.577)
Yeah.

Lex (28:13.644)
on in the morning and deal with it then and not feel that just that pressure to kind of be on all the time. And so I think that, you mentioned flexibility earlier. I think this is an area where flexibility is really good, but it can also create a bit of a blurriness between boundaries on a work life basis. And so just having that awareness of what message am I sending by doing X or Y right now? And how can I kind of create a bit more of that structure where people don't feel that pressure, I think is really, really important.

Tara Flickinger (28:28.946)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Flickinger (28:41.936)
Yeah, I think it's important for people to set boundaries that work for them because of technology, there's this 24-7 nature of the working world now and that's seven days a week. And so it's important for individuals to set their boundaries. And I always talk to folks, especially new moms, because it's a totally different game.

that you need to do it early when the cement is wet. Because if you're coming to the office and you're staying till six o'clock every night and you have a new baby, the expectation is that you're going to continue to do that. But if you set the expectation of, I need to leave by 4.30 to go pick up my child at daycare and I'm going to block the calendar from 4.30 to 7 so that I can spend quality time with my infant and then I'm going to

Lex (29:14.958)
Mm.

Tara Flickinger (29:40.868)
log back in after and you set that boundary early on while the cement is wet, then people will respect that. tech, you know, technology is a, they're, they're flip sides of the coin. There are positives and minuses. The positive side is that you can virtually work from wherever you are, but that's also the negative. So it's, it's on an employee, it's on you.

to set those parameters and those boundaries so that you're not working 24 seven, right? So there's positives and negatives. The same is true of flexibility. If you don't have to be in your seat from eight until six every day, then there are times on the weekend or at night that you may have to log in and respond to an email or be on.

And that's just some of the give and take, I think, with flexibility.

Lex (30:42.242)
Totally, yeah, it reminds me of kind of that dichotomy that you represented earlier of impact versus visibility. Visibility is harder to come by in this kind of distributed workforce that we've all kind of adopted. so trying to focus maybe our own mindsets on impact rather than like, have to be on at all times. I think that shift is one that probably culturally happens kind of slowly, but we're moving in that direction.

Tara Flickinger (31:05.187)
Yeah, but I think being very clear with people so they know you're not on from this time to this time is really important because the worst thing is for others to be wondering, well, what's going on? Where is she? So just being very communicative with those boundaries.

Lex (31:24.088)
Yep. Yeah. I love how you mentioned calendar blocks. think that that we see a lot of people on our team leveraging that. And so it's like, okay, I know that this person is doing this at this time and I can expect that I'll get an answer from them in two hours. And that's perfectly fine. So I love that. Okay. So final question to wrap things up. This one I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on. The world economic forum predicts that it will take 106 years for women in North America to reach economic parity with men.

Tara Flickinger (31:35.238)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (31:41.308)
Okay?

Lex (31:52.792)
So based on what you're seeing, do you feel like that number feels right or can we expect some acceleration? And then can you also give me almost like an explain like I'm five version of why reaching parity can't just be an overnight decision? Like we know that we wanna close this gap, why can't we just do it like that?

Tara Flickinger (32:11.314)
Yeah, yeah, it's a really good question. So 106 years seems...

like way too much time. think we absolutely can accelerate that. So that feels, that doesn't feel right to me.

Lex (32:30.062)
I know when I think of 106 years ago, I'm like, that's a totally different world. So what is 106 years from now gonna look like? It seems like everything's accelerating so rapidly. We should be able to get this going too.

Tara Flickinger (32:34.364)
Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (32:41.402)
Yeah, okay. So, and here's why it can't be changed overnight. So I took this class when I was in business school and the professor showed us a chart that basically looked like, I think if I do it like this, and this bottom line was women's compensation over time and this was men's. So as you can see, men's was much steeper.

Lex (33:03.542)
Okay. For our audio listeners, there's that kind of a flat line for the women and then a very tilted, you upward projection for the men.

Tara Flickinger (33:08.216)
yeah. Seed line.

Yeah, so it starts early and this is why I tell women that you have to ask because men are asking and think about compounding numbers over a long period of time. So it starts out earlier early in your career and if a man asks many asks again and he asks again and he asks again, then his compensation is going to increase at a higher

steeper rate than someone who's not asking. And if you extrapolate that out over time, over the career of an individual, there's going to be a big disparity because of the compounding nature of one's compensation. And so I think that women are doing a better job. And I think

companies are doing a better job early on. So as you know, my generation, the generation ahead of me, the one right behind me, as we sort of start to move out of the corporate world, for lack of a better term, term, and these other younger generations come through, there's not going to be as much of a disparity as there was for for our generations. And so that's why it's really important for women.

to ask. The other thing that I think is important to note is that, and I'm dealing with people and compensation and offers all the time, is that there's never a discussion of, well, she's a woman and he's a man and he should be paid more. That never happens, ever.

Lex (35:01.294)
That's good, at least. At least we know that.

Tara Flickinger (35:01.97)
Ever. Yeah. What does happen is that candidates come to us and we talk about compensation and what their compensation expectations are. And so a lot of times the package is rooted in their compensation history and what their personal expectation is for the role. So if women have been making less over time and they come to me,

and they say, this is what I've been making, is what my expectations are, and it's less, then they're going to get less than a man who has been making more money over time and has higher expectations. And so again, it goes back to way back when, early on in one's career, starting that negotiation process early and asking for more so that

over time, there isn't such a disparity between men and women's compensation. Does that make sense? I clear? Any clarifying questions?

Lex (36:10.816)
It does. No, that's perfect. It's interesting. Well, it's mostly, it's just interesting to me that the level of, yeah, this isn't an intentional decision on behalf of hiring teams. And that's a really good thing, but it's also partially what makes it harder for this to change very quickly because it's not something that's just like standardized across the board. We're doing this and now we'll change to doing that. Like you said, this is part of a big system. Deep roots to this. Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (36:30.758)
Yeah.

They're deep roots. Yeah. Deep roots. Yeah.

Lex (36:37.784)
And that's why, mean, it's so important for women to advocate for themselves, but it's also so difficult because it's just not, it's not been the way that the system has worked historically. And so I do, really appreciate this conversation because I feel like it's, very empowering in the sense of, okay, like we have the ability and it's important for us to advocate for ourselves because the decisions that you make early in your career do have such a major impact on the trajectory of your career. And then as we extrapolate that out across all women, you know,

Tara Flickinger (36:51.612)
Mm-hmm.

Lex (37:07.884)
We all rise together. so, I don't know. I really appreciate that perspective. I think it's really important.

Tara Flickinger (37:09.735)
Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (37:14.45)
Sure. I think maybe one last thing that I would add is that I talk a lot about or encourage women to ask. I recognize it is not easy. And I will say there is an art to doing it. I'm not suggesting or condoning being brazen and disrespectful and

demanding things, but speaking up for oneself in a confident, convicted way, knowing that you are going to make tremendous impacts because you are going to pour your heart and soul into what you are doing and you want to be compensated accordingly.

Lex (38:08.204)
I think that that is such a great call out and it reminded me of something you said earlier, was, I think it was about creating those internal champions. You said coming from a place of authenticity and it's very genuine. And I think that.

Tara Flickinger (38:18.46)
Mm-hmm.

Lex (38:20.556)
Yes. If we're pushing for this in a way that doesn't feel genuine to us, it's hard to be confident in that moment too, cause you feel like you're playing a role. don't feel like it's genuine, but if you can get to a place of recognizing these are my strengths, this is what I can bring to the table and I want to be compensated appropriately and accordingly. I think that that's a totally different posture and mindset and probably a bit easier to wear.

Tara Flickinger (38:24.871)
Yeah.

Tara Flickinger (38:40.124)
For sure. For sure.

Lex (38:43.596)
Well, thank you so much for this. I feel like this was such an incredible conversation. I wish that I could have heard all of this 10 years ago when I was just starting my career. And so just appreciate you sharing all of these insights. And ultimately, my takeaway here is a very hopeful one and one that seems like, yeah, we've made a lot of progress. And we can only expect that to continue. And so thank you for sharing.

Tara Flickinger (38:45.659)
Yeah!

Tara Flickinger (38:50.534)
Me too!

Tara Flickinger (39:05.798)
Yeah, and for all the, I would say for all the listeners, it should be very positive. I'm hopeful. I truly am hopeful. I think we are in a much better place than we were three years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, and I think it's just only gonna get better.

Lex (39:21.646)
Okay. So the world economic forum, you guys need to get your act together. 106 years. We're going to beat that. We're going to, we're going to beat that. That's our personal goal. Okay. Thank you, Tara. I'm going to do a little wrap up spiel as we close becoming a hiring machine is a prod, production of Loxo. If you liked this episode and you're not sure where to go next, there is a link to a similar one in the show notes. And you will also find in the show notes, a link to the report that we were discussing today.

Tara Flickinger (39:26.386)
We are. For sure. I love it. You bet.

Tara Flickinger (39:36.444)
Okay.

Lex (39:50.23)
You can find the show notes in the description of your favorite podcast streaming platform, as well as on our website, loxo.co slash podcasts. Full episodes are also available on YouTube and our website. They're pretty much anywhere you want to find them. You can find them. If you have a specific question or are looking for advice, you can always send us an email at podcast at loxo.co. manage that inbox and I love when we get listener questions. So please never feel like a bother. Send them my way. So if you enjoyed this episode,

please make sure to leave a review, a quick rating in your podcast streaming platform. It only takes a couple of seconds and it helps other recruiters find us. So thank you all for listening. Thank you, Tara, for joining us. And until next time, enjoy the week ahead.

Tara Flickinger (40:33.404)
Thanks for having me.